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[honestjohnny]

Or, How to Permanently Fix the Tuning and Intonation Problems Inherent in the Ashbory.

I had an Ashbory that I sold after two years of struggling with it. I loved the tone, ease of play, and attention it got (and by extension, I got), but I couldn't keep it in tune or play consistently with proper intonation. 

So I thought I could get a Fernandes Nomad Bass (25" scale, similar in appearance, with a piezo pickup), defret it, and use nylon tapewound strings on it.  I have several preamps already, so I'm good for that. I would even consider tuning it ADGC to accommodate the low tension on the strings.

I just don't know if this will sound similar to the Ashbory.  Would this work? Is there another way? 

[honestjohnny]

Well, I'm answering my own question, but...

I played a short scale (29") acoustic bass tonight.  With tapewounds and defretted, I'm sure I can get it to sound like an Ashbory, but with better intonation and more stable tuning.  The Fernandes Nomad would be an ideal format to give me a similar look to the Ashbory.  So for anyone who desperately wants to love their Ashbory, but can't resolve the problems, here's your solution.

[Brock]

I played a short scale (29") acoustic bass tonight.  With tapewounds and defretted, I'm sure I can get it to sound like an Ashbory

Tapewounds are going to "thud" more, but the strings are not the same, and it won't sound or act like an Ashbory.

My friend Bob is a huge fan of Fender 9120 strings and he has an Ashbory too. There's no confusing a bass guitar with tapewounds with an Ashbory. This isn't a knock on bass guitars... ...I own them and enjoy them, but it won't be the same.


-Brock

[honestjohnny]

No, it won't be the same, but it will be close enough.  And the aforementioned problems will not be present, so I'll be happier.  And the Nomad has "the look," and is tiny, so it'll still get attention, when it makes a BIG sound. 

On another note, are you sure the sound comes from the strings alone or does it come from the piezo, fretless, AND the strings?  It certainly doesn't come from wood or the acoustic nature of the body.  And if I can get 80% there with roundwounds on a micro-scale ABG with piezo and a multiFX unit, what does that mean?

I'm not knocking the Ashbory, at all.  I love it!  That's why I'm trying to solve the problems I had with it, because honestly, if those problems hadn't existed, I would still have it and would NOT have the short scale basses that I currently use.  I never had a problem with the balance.  I love the way it looked.  The sound was magnificent and ideal.  I just couldn't play it in a band setting, so it fell by the wayside.  Like I said the tuning instability--even after a year--and the 18" scale made it so difficult to play.  I could make one with a longer scale and use different strings, but that's kinda what I'm proposing here anyway.  And I would argue that if we played my proposed "Nashbory (Nomad + Ashbory)," next to an Ashbory with polyurethane strings, which are more thuddy, that the difference would be even less.

I just want it to be as close as possible.

[redstriper]

Hi honest -
When you say you 'couldn't keep it in tune or play consistently with proper intonation', do you mean the strings were slipping out of tune during the gig or that you found it hard to intonate because of the very short scale and fretlessness ?
I got my Ashbory about a year ago and I gig regularly with it and find the strings easily stay in tune for the duration of a gig.
I recently fitted new pahoehoe strings and they seem more stable than the originals.
It is harder to play than a regular bass because the very short scale means you have to be more accurate with your fingering.
This means I have to look more closely at what I'm doing, which is a pain when I'd rather be looking at the ladies dancing in the crowd, but I hope to get better at playing 'blind' with more practise.
I almost gave up like you and I bought a short scale fretted bass, but it's not the same as the Ashbory and is nowhere near as much fun to play.
I considered fitting gut frets to ease the intonation problem, but have decided to leave things as they are for now and see how I go.
I'm still looking for analternative to the Ashbory and I read your post with interest.
I'm not sure the Nomad is ideal though, I've read that it's sound is tinny and I doubt you could make it sound like an Ash.
A better bet might be a bass ukulele from roadtoad or if you can afford it a mouse 30 from Rob Allen.
Please keep posting any developments and I will watch with interest.
 

[honestjohnny]

Yeah the strings constantly slipped out of tune and I would rather look at dancing ladies than my hand on the fingerboard  :-D

The tinny sound people have complained of is the lack of a good preamp and EQ'ing abilities.  The Alvarez MSB1 that I played just has the piezo straight to the jack and if left without EQ would sound typical of piezos, i.e. bright and twangy.  But if you cut the highs and boost the mids and lows it warms up and sounds very deep.  The issue with piezos is that they produce a lot of gain and frequencies on either end of the spectrum that we can't even hear.  And since we hear high frequencies better than lows.... I really just chose the Nomad because of body shape.  It is very similar to the Ashbory.  But I think this will work with any piezo bass, solid or otherwise.

I will let you all know how this progresses.  Now I just have to get the wife on board....

[honestjohnny]

Mostly talking to myself on this thread.  Oh well....

Cruising through harmony-central.com reviews, I found a review by a guy who had a fretless Nomad bass and managed to track him down via Talkbass.com.  It seems the playability and tuning were very stable. Though I have to take that with a grain of salt, due to the difference between my experience with the Ashbory and others on this forum.  But at least I know I'm not way off base (pun intended). I'm hopeful that the increased gauge of the tapewound strings (.110-.070) will increase tension and stability. 

[Brock]

On another note, are you sure the sound comes from the strings alone or does it come from the piezo, fretless, AND the strings? 

The sound is almost completely the strings. Hard to put a percentage on these things, but the strings are most all of the sound.

The best illustration of this is now in the FAQ on this site:
http://www.largesound.com/ashboryfaq/general/

See "Q: How does a little instrument sound so deep and rich? Is there some electronic tricks that make it happen, like a pitch shifter, midi, of something like that." and listen to the audio clip.

It certainly doesn't come from wood or the acoustic nature of the body.  And if I can get 80% there with roundwounds on a micro-scale ABG with piezo and a multiFX unit, what does that mean?

I just want it to be as close as possible.

The closest you can get to an Ashbory as far as I know is an upright bass with "gut" strings on it. It won't do all the pulse-tap stuff, and isn't as responsive to playing technique differences in general, but it just about nails the fingerstyle sound. Scary close.

Yes, the construction, and what causes the tone is drastically different, but what if you stare at strings, you'll notice they have the same wiggle. Metal strings do not act the same. Short scale isn't the key. The key is how the strings vibrate. Yes, the Ashbory piezo does a wonderful job of picking up the low tension strings, but as the MP3 in the FAQ illustrates, the magic is in the strings.


-Brock

[honestjohnny]

This is when I wish I had the ability to post mp3's.  I'm sure that the tones I describe and the tones of the Ashbory are different.  I have no illusions about that.  In my case, the strings are both the problem AND the solution, so by controlling the other variables (scale, pickups, fretless fingerboard, EQ) I can get a SIMILAR sound.  Upright has it's own set of problems, that I'd prefer not to have to deal with again.  :-D

Again, the only reason I'm doing this is because I loved my Ashbory so much, but couldn't get it to work in a live setting.

[honestjohnny]

Another update...talking to myself....

Rather than use the Fernandes Nomad, which was going to be hard to find in metallic blue, as a platform, I'm going to go with the Samick MCR-1.  It's a 25.5" scale bass guitar, shaped like a P-bass.  I'm going to strip the all the electronics and use a Graph-Tech Ghost pickup-equipped Hipshot A-style bridge.  I'm going to wire it passive, initially, straight to the jack.  I'm going to fill all the routes and refinish in metallic blue, in remembrance of my blue Ashbory.  The MCR will balance better than the Fernandes and I'll be able to intonate the bridge better.  Plus it's a cheaper initial cost of $200 vs. $400 for the unmodified bass.  The Hipshot bridge is $200 from Graph-Tech retail.  I'm going to see if I can get it through a wholesaler for less.  I will also add new black Hipshot Y-key 3/4" Ultralight Tuners. Still going to defret and use Fender 9120's.  The Hipshot strings-thru, so I won't have to cut the strings below the wrapped section. 

I'm starting to think that even if this sounds different than an Ashbory, side-by side, I'll have a unique looking and sounding instrument, that will have a very upright-ish tone and the funky looks and small size that I loved about the Ashbory.     

You guys who like short scale electric basses when you're not playing your Ashborys check out smallguitars.com.  They also have Ashborys, but not the variety of parts and accessories that Brock stocks here.  And not as good a price.  :-D

[byronbuckles]

The sound is almost completely the strings. Hard to put a percentage on these things, but the strings are most all of the sound.

Yes, the construction, and what causes the tone is drastically different, but what if you stare at strings, you'll notice they have the same wiggle. Metal strings do not act the same. Short scale isn't the key. The key is how the strings vibrate. Yes, the Ashbory piezo does a wonderful job of picking up the low tension strings, but as the MP3 in the FAQ illustrates, the magic is in the strings.


-Brock

Brock, the Pahoehoe polyurethane strings discussed elsewhere on the board provide a new color to this Ashbory sound -- but I agree that the strings are the primary root of the Ash sound. The materials in these strings and the originals vibrate in a similar way and provide the sound -- in both cases radically different than the sound of metal electric bass guitar strings.

It's such a departure from other bass instruments that I am not sure you could get close with other strings or electronics.
Eric